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  #21  
Old 12-29-2011
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I played with the pepperball gun at my previous city and was less than impressed by it. Also, if I have both hands on a pole, the only way to carry the PB gun is to strap it across you back making it difficult to deploy. I don't want anything I can't stick in a pouch on my duty belt, so cans of OC or citronella is all I want.

I was also offered the chance to try a Taser, but after researching it I declined. In almost every video I have seen it seems to make a bad situation worse. As long as the dog is confronting me I have a chance of catching it, but after they are tased they will stay 25' away so you have no chance of catching it then. Or, you can pole it while it is being tased which of course means there is a good chance of tasing yourself in the process.
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  #22  
Old 12-29-2011
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GTO,

The SA-4 is a pistol type device that can be carried in a belt holster. Plus unlike the other PepperBall products, the SA-4's projectile has a stabilized aero dynamic shape. http://www.pepperball.com/law/products.html

As far as getting Tazared while placing a control pole on and anila that is being Tazed, I wouldn't worry about it. I have held on to a person who was being Tazed at training and didn't get shocked. If you aren't between the barbs you don't get shocked.

Stay Safe

Fyr
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  #23  
Old 12-29-2011
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I know your safe touching the animal while it is being tased, but from what Iíve seen and heard, if your pole touches one of the wires itíll zap you pretty good. I saw a bailiff get tangled up in the wire after a prisoner was tased. It didnít quite put him on the ground, but it did stop him from doing anything productive until the shock stopped.

The SA-4 is cute. It looks like a Nerf gun. Itís a bit bulky though. I still donít like using spray or anything else on an animal I intend to catch. I carried OC for nearly 20 years and citronella for about a year, and I have probably sprayed about 20 dogs, but I have only caught 2 or 3 after they have been sprayed. I generally only spray them when it a 3 on 1 situation, and they are well within the range of can stuff at that point.

The last time I sprayed a dog was a couple of months ago. I was in a creek going for 2 dogs, but then a 3rd joined the party. The pack mentality took over and they formed a triangle around me. And you know that game, when you look at one the other two lunge in a little closer, and when I stumbled on the rocks they all came just that much closer. I gave the most dangerous looking one a quick spritz of citronella, and he did a 2 second 100 yard dash away from me and I never found it again.

We took a PB dog from a house where they had done a drug raid, and the TACT team had popped it with a pepperball gun. There was a 1Ē wide whelp between the dogs shoulder and its neck. I can only imagine what would have happened had they hit it in an eye. Remember the key words, liability, liability, liability.
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Old 12-30-2011
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The other night I had an image, a vision, yes another invention. A paintball type gun that shoots citronella balls. I've seen "make your own paintball kits" but I don't have the time, now, to mess around with testing and whatnot. In addition to the citronella in the ball that you can shoot in front of the dog, you can use it in a direct fire role directly against the dog as an impact weapon.

As a side note, I would love Premier Pet Products to make a citronella spray that can be sprayed from any angle, that way I can work up a control pole mount.

Jeff
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Old 12-30-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SixbyFire View Post
As a side note, I would love Premier Pet Products to make a citronella spray that can be sprayed from any angle, that way I can work up a control pole mount.

Jeff
Oooo, that would be cool. You know they have citronella bark collars that would spray at the right angle, and could be mounted comparitively easy, all you would need is some kind of trigering mechanism.

As far as a projected ball, what I would like to see is a cylindrical projectile with an expanding base that would grip rifling, then load that into a .44 mag case with a low power charge and use it in a short barrel revolver. I know a .50 AE case would hold a larger projectile, but .50 AE revolvers are a little scarce.
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Old 12-30-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Getting too old View Post
Oooo, that would be cool. You know they have citronella bark collars that would spray at the right angle, and could be mounted comparitively easy, all you would need is some kind of trigering mechanism.
Great minds and all that stuff! Tried it. Doen't spray far enough. The refill cannisters for the collars spray a bit more and at any angle, however, they don't spray far enough either. Both are more of a mist/spray then a stream. My idea is to have the cannister mounted under the control pole, with a bracket that holds it on the sides and front where there is some back and forth play. To spray, just press the cannister forward against the bracket, and it sprays, let go and it stops. But, they don't make the right cannister, yet. I honestly don't think they think there would be a wide enough profit margin, er, market I mean...

Jeff
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  #27  
Old 12-30-2011
acofred acofred is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Getting too old View Post
As far as a projected ball, what I would like to see is a cylindrical projectile with an expanding base that would grip rifling, then load that into a .44 mag case with a low power charge and use it in a short barrel revolver. I know a .50 AE case would hold a larger projectile, but .50 AE revolvers are a little scarce.
And expensive. The only ones I know of are made by Freedom Arms or custom-modified Rugers.

The challenge would be getting a liquid-filled projectile to hold together until it exits the barrel.

But then, you're still carrying a gun, and if your suits say no guns, I'm sure that would be out also. If it looks like a gun, the public thinks it's a gun. That's why the non-gun-looking tranq guns are so cool; at worst, the public might think you're shooting paintballs.

Last edited by acofred; 12-30-2011 at 09:28 AM.
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  #28  
Old 12-30-2011
sears59 sears59 is offline
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I agree, best to be judge 12 and buried by 6. I have a Conceal Carry Permit here in Kansas, and there is an open carry policy here as well. I carry once I'm off duty. There are days I do wear my bullet prove vest. But considering the safety issue for ACO's seem to be on the bottom of the totem pole, we have to rely on each other, but kinda hard on the weekends when theres only one ACO. Sometimes its hard to get the PD involved when we need back for "disgruntled" pet owners when issuing a citation or even apprehending an aggressive dog.
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  #29  
Old 12-31-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acofred View Post
And expensive. The only ones I know of are made by Freedom Arms or custom-modified Rugers.

The challenge would be getting a liquid-filled projectile to hold together until it exits the barrel.

But then, you're still carrying a gun, and if your suits say no guns, I'm sure that would be out also. If it looks like a gun, the public thinks it's a gun. That's why the non-gun-looking tranq guns are so cool; at worst, the public might think you're shooting paintballs.
Getting it to hold together is no that big of a deal. The velocity would need to be the same as a regular paint or pepperball gun, and worst case it could be placed in a plastic sabot or a couple of thousandths undersized so it wouldnít touch the rifling. However, your right, it would still be a firearm.

I find the definition of firearm to be entertaining. The feds define a firearm as having a metallic cartridge, so a muzzle loader or cap and ball pistol are not a ďfirearmĒ. Texas says if it expels a projectile and is powered by an explosive charge then it is a firearm, so the black powder stuff is with the exception of;

(A) an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899; or
(B) a replica of an antique or curio firearm manufactured before 1899, but only if the replica does not use rim fire or center fire ammunition.

So it is perfectly legal under state law for me to carry my replica 1847 Colt Walker revolver around.

City codes will include all of the above + air and or spring air powered in order to eliminate pellet or BB guns.

The city policy was that if a employee, other than a police officer, brought a firearm on city property, even if it was inside you vehicle in the parking lot, you were subject to immediate termination. However a recent change in state law now allows you to have the gun in the car if you have a CHL, but if you take it out of the car your still history.
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  #30  
Old 12-31-2011
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Sears thats 12 people not even smart enough to get out of Jury duty
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