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  #11  
Old 06-15-2011
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Originally Posted by acofred View Post
Given time, she may have gotten it back under control, but statistics say otherwise.
What statistics? The ones I have seen show most pet owners DO get their pets spayed or neutered and vaccinated. Also, that the majority of unaltered pets are in households with the lowest incomes -- meaning, they literally cannot afford the surgery in many instances.

Animals that are caged are not likely to breed. I didn't see any indications of puppies from the unaltered dogs.

Granted, we are all embroidering a lot on the few reported observations or facts.

It is hard to have a lot of sympathy for the husband, for me. Marriage takes two, and both spouses get some quirks and both get to put up with some too. This is just very cruel, IMO.

I actually do not think 13 cats is *necessarily* too many in any home. (We have McMansions hereabouts, for example -- they could EASILY house around 20 cats without crowding cats or humans!) It definitely depends a lot on what sort of manpower there is to care for animals. And definitely eighty-somethings should be entitled to a helper or two.

The story leaves me with a lot more questions than answers.
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Old 06-15-2011
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Just a note about the ferals. Almost every cat hoarder is going to have a good percentage of ferals around. Usually because they know they will be euthanized if they go to a shelter. Granted, itís a good trick to get a feral into a carrier, especially for a 79 year old, but that could also explain why the cages were dirty.
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Old 06-15-2011
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What statistics?
The ones that show time and time again that once a freelance rescuer loses control to the point they're hoarding or conditions become cruel, they almost never regain control until the authorities step in.
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Old 06-16-2011
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Uh, so wouldn't it make sense to seek ways to NOT auto-kill ferals on impound?? Duh.
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Old 06-16-2011
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The ones that show time and time again that once a freelance rescuer loses control to the point they're hoarding or conditions become cruel, they almost never regain control until the authorities step in.
For whatever has embittered you so, you are definitely not serving that cause well.

What programs do you see that are providing PREVENTIVE assistance to ordinary people who care about animals but -- SHOCK and AWE -- do not have the great and glorious blessing of the Impounding Industry?

What makes you believe that you know every "freelance rescuer" in your state? We often discuss right here on the forums, how underground folks go. Once these folks get the message that your only advice will be "kill them," they turn away from you. Instead, they turn to private programs. You have no real clue what "freelance rescuers" can do if given the proper information and support!

Last edited by Mark Kumpf; 06-20-2011 at 02:49 PM. Reason: Personal attack language removed.
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Old 06-16-2011
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That is why rescues pull so precious few animals from shelters. I have utilized every source available for over 10 years trying to get animals into rescue, but the result has been negligible, less than 5% of available animals are ever pulled because the volunteers are so overwhelmed.

I made the mistake of renting a house to the founder of one of the local cat rescues. When they moved out, the closets were full of feces, there were buckets of feces in the back yard, the back yard reeked from all of the feces they had just washed out of the sunroom with a hose. The walls of the sunroom were so damaged by the water that I had to replace the lower 4í. The garage walls were damaged from them hosing the feces out of the garage.

I used to share dog food donations with somebody who ran a no-kill dog operation. He made the mistake of advertising with his home address, so every day when he came home from work there were dogs tied to his fence. He was taking in 10 for every one he would place, so he stopped all of his advertising and tried to shut down the operation, but all that did was slow the incoming, it didnít stop it. They would dump sick, aggressive and every other kind of non-adoptable dogs on him, and he wouldnít euthanize any of them. The last time I saw him he told me that if he could put a bubble over his house, and never take in another dog, he would have to spend every dime he could scare up and every spare minute for the next 15 years just to keep up.
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Old 06-17-2011
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Folks, lets keep the discussion polite and on point. Personal and unprofessional comments will be deleted.

With regard to statistics, I believe the ASPCA has been collating some specific information on the number of "rescues" that have been the target of cruelty cases which will be more hard data versus anecdotal stats. If will see if I can get some information and pass it along.

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  #18  
Old 06-17-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Kumpf View Post
Folks, lets keep the discussion polite and on point. Personal and unprofessional comments will be deleted.

With regard to statistics, I believe the ASPCA has been collating some specific information on the number of "rescues" that have been the target of cruelty cases which will be more hard data versus anecdotal stats. If will see if I can get some information and pass it along.

Mark
Will those numbers include home freelancers, or just recognized 501c3 organizations? I notice you put "rescues" in quotation marks.
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Old 06-17-2011
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Originally Posted by carrie_cat View Post
What programs do you see that are providing PREVENTIVE assistance to ordinary people who care about animals but -- SHOCK and AWE -- do not have the great and glorious blessing of the Impounding Industry?
Not my job to provide assistance to freelancers.
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  #20  
Old 06-17-2011
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That is why rescues pull so precious few animals from shelters. I have utilized every source available for over 10 years trying to get animals into rescue, but the result has been negligible, less than 5% of available animals are ever pulled because the volunteers are so overwhelmed.
I'm not very clear what you mean by trying to get animals into rescue. We probably deal with very different situations, but the impound facility here errs on the OTHER extreme -- they don't "work with" many active rescue programs, they don't provide any sort of assistance to IMPROVE rescues' capacity or management (which would lead to better outcomes for the animals) and they make all sorts of demands to illustrate how in control the chief there is. It's not a partnership, in other words, it is more like indentured servitude, so no cat programs, and only a very, very few dog programs, are still willing to actively try to work with this facility. The same groups now pull pretty happily from a lot of surrounding facilities, so the net effect is that there are good outcomes for animals SOMEWHERE.

Why not try partnering with a funder, to offer some simple workshops about how to manage intakes and increase placements that will "stick" for the rescues you've tried to work with? There are things you can do, proactively, that decrease burnout and help you deal with overwhelm. Most rescues are amateur efforts, lots of them don't know how to run a home office, or set up a good tracking database, or promote themselves and their successful placements. In the end it seems to me it would ease your frustration, and help the animals you're trying to help, if you put some resources into helping the rescues. Start small -- just talk with one potential funder, see if they though the idea would be interesting to them.

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Originally Posted by Getting too old View Post
I made the mistake of renting a house to the founder of one of the local cat rescues.
I advise a good property manager. These folks are worth their pay, honestly!! I have not had animal issues in my rental properties, but I've been stuck in other ways, UNTIL I hired a local real estate person. She makes sure to check periodically on properties -- so if something was beginning to be a problem with pets, or with rescue activities, we could address it on the early side.

Ignoring the existence of private rescue efforts isn't going to make them improve OR go away. Go upstream though. If you DID want to save cats' lives, in your community, what WOULD you do? Rather than condemn a person who tried to do something, why not think about what would work, especially if it were something that would not require regular participation in destroying animals?

I actually level the same accusation at both animal control and rescue groups: you don't seem to know how to design and evaluate a program. Yet programs are how people achieve goals and move forward! With a good program, you assess how you're doing against predictable outcomes, and if you're not making your milestones, you know you need to change something in the program. You make a change, see how THAT is working, and either keep it, or change something else. THIS IS SUCH BASIC SIMPLE BUSINESS that it's really frustrating how resistant animal care and control people seem to be to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Getting too old View Post
I used to share dog food donations with somebody who ran a no-kill dog operation. He made the mistake of advertising with his home address, so every day when he came home from work there were dogs tied to his fence. He was taking in 10 for every one he would place, so he stopped all of his advertising and tried to shut down the operation, but all that did was slow the incoming, it didnít stop it. They would dump sick, aggressive and every other kind of non-adoptable dogs on him, and he wouldnít euthanize any of them. The last time I saw him he told me that if he could put a bubble over his house, and never take in another dog, he would have to spend every dime he could scare up and every spare minute for the next 15 years just to keep up.
I don't think one person should consider him- or herself to be a program. It's certainly nice, while you can keep up, to feel like a hero, I am sure. But you don't say anything about any other people involved. That's unsustainable, and probably a recipe for bad things to happen. For one thing, this one guy does not seem to have had enough marketing skills to get the right word out. For another thing, when you only have one person calling the shots, well, they don't consider all the perspectives. Like, right now, we are debating some issues here. This leads to all of us thinking more thoroughly about them. Maybe you think it doesn't improve what we ultimately decide to do. I have seen small groups devise plans that were much stronger because they weren't just my personal plan. So I believe in that kind of group process. Also, I sometimes learn from some folks here on ACOFunstop, to consider some aspects of working with animals, that I would never know if we had a Berlin Wall up all the time. Rescues should find ways to get word out particularly when they are overwhelmed. There are ways to appeal to people's desire to be helpful, to be of use. Probably one of the best times is when you have more dogs or cats than you can handle -- as some ACOs seem to know when they do "hoarder" PR shows! It never fails to bring members of the public running to help out.
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